The Daria Hamrah Podcast
Do you want to change or simply improve your life? Take your business or your personal relationships to the next level? Have you ever thought why change is so difficult? Ever wondered how people become successful and we just call them "lucky". The Daria Hamrah Podcast gives you Dr. Hamrah's personal insights and pathways to his successes and what he calls "true happiness". Featuring interviews with some of the most successful entrepreneurs, authors and experts in their field, he shares their insights into what he calls the "Secret of Life".
The Daria Hamrah Podcast
Authenticity, Aesthetic Trends, and the Future of Plastic Surgery - with Dr. Charles Galanis
Dr. Charles Galanis, a renowned double board-certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon, joins us to explore the fascinating evolution of his career and the dynamic world of aesthetic surgery. From his early education at the University of Wisconsin to his extensive training at Johns Hopkins Hospital and UCLA, Dr. Galanis shares his inspiring journey and the decision to expand his practice to Nashville. He discusses the influence of social media on patient outreach and the parallels between Nashville and his Midwest roots, offering unique insights into the future of the plastic surgery industry.
Communication is a cornerstone of successful surgical practice, and Dr. Galanis shines a light on its significance in plastic surgery. He shares how surgeons must balance their roles as medical experts and savvy communicators, with effective branding often as crucial as surgical skills. Dr. Galanis highlights the importance of authenticity on social media to build trust with patients, transforming early awkwardness into genuine, impactful interactions. He also touches on the personality traits that influence career choices in surgery, underscoring the importance of a genuine desire to improve patients' lives.
Our conversation delves into broader healthcare issues, like the financial motivations influencing medical practices and the benefits of integrating holistic health approaches into surgery. Dr. Galanis shares his vision for patient-centered care, discussing the trend toward natural aesthetics and the cultural attitudes that shape cosmetic procedures around the world. From exploring surgical trends in Europe to managing patient expectations, this episode offers a comprehensive look at the complexities and rewards of modern plastic surgery. Tune in to hear Dr. Galanis's thoughtful perspectives on aligning professional success with personal values and the evolving landscape of healthcare.
Website: https://galanisplasticsurgery.com/
Instagram: @charlesgalanismd
Tweet me @realdrhamrah
IG @drhamrah
All right, everyone, welcome to another episode of the Dario Hammer podcast. Today I'm honored to introduce a truly accomplished guest plastic surgeon, dr Charles Galanis. He's a double board certified plastic and reconstructive surgeon with a career path that is as impressive as it's inspiring, and we're going to dive into that in this podcast about his professional as well as personal career. Originally from Milwaukee, he started his medical journey by going to medical school at the University of Wisconsin, where he excelled as a class president and earned a place in the prestigious Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Society, and from there he trained right around the corner here from where we are, at the Johns Hopkins Hospital and, as you all know, it's the number one ranked hospital in the nation. For many decades and during his residency as a general surgery resident, he received a research grant from the NIH leading him to spend two years conducting groundbreaking research at the prestigious Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, one of the top-ranked cancer centers in the nation.
Speaker 1:So a lot of parallelism to my career. Mine started also in cancer research and now in aesthetics. I wonder if that's a common trend. Now, after completing his general surgery training, he pursued his passion then for plastic and reconstructive surgery, and I'm curious to see how that came about at UCLA, one of the most competitive programs in the country, and his training spanned diverse settings from private practice in Beverly Hills to high volume county hospitals and the renowned UCLA Medical Center so he's seen it all over there during his training, that's for sure. He then stayed at UCLA for an additional year, almost like he never loves or likes to stop learning and specializing in microsurgery and performing complex breast, head and neck reconstructive surgeries as a fellow and clinical instructor later.
Speaker 1:So he then traveled to Colombia fairly recent, in 2019, to complete advanced training in high-def liposuction with the one and only Dr Alfredo Hoyas, who is the world leader in that field and with over 20 published articles and book chapters. He's not only a master of his craft, but also a true innovator in aesthetic and reconstructive surgery, and his work speaks for itself. So, for those of you who see his work on social media and all the platforms, you know what I'm talking about. So today we'll dive into his incredible journey which I feel it's just a beginning and his philosophy on patient care and his thoughts on the evolving world of plastic surgery, as well as health and wellness. So, without further ado, let's welcome Charlie. Thanks for taking the time and coming on my show on a Saturday with a little girl. So, being a father, a husband and an international surgeon and I just saw you open up another location in Nashville. Dude, like two locations weren't enough, you have to do a third one. What's up with that?
Speaker 2:Well, thank you for having me. Yeah, I mean, I think kind of going along the lines of all the extra training maybe I'm just a glutton for self-punishment, but yeah, there's a lot of reasons, there's many reasons we can get into for the different locations, but yeah, we just sort of it's been a process for a while to get something set up in Nashville, but we're excited for that and it's, you know, the home base is still LA and that's not changing. But there's just, I don't know, maybe I need to slow down, but there's just been these reasons for me to explore other options, both personal and professional, to be honest with you.
Speaker 1:What are?
Speaker 2:those. Well, you know, from a professional standpoint, I'll tell you, and I'm sure this is what your experience has been too certainly, with social media becoming more and more prominent role in what we do, our patients come from further and further away. You know the borders of where we quote-unquote market are extended and really we sort of face a borderless marketing situation now where you have patients coming from all over the place. About 50% of our patients travel from out of town. So, you know, I'm encountering more and more people who are coming from further and further away and getting more and more interest in. Hey, would you ever consider coming closer? Or would you, you know, ever consider this community? And so part of it was, you know, professional, based to to capture a group of patients, make it easier for them.
Speaker 2:Insofar as I could find a situation that worked for me too. I mean, as you know, it's not easy to just set up a whole system somewhere else. It's not like we have a food truck and we just pull up into town and start doing surgery. So it had to be the right situation. And, on a personal level, I think that you know my family had an interest in Nashville, on excited interest in Nashville as like a as this possible source that you know, one day maybe it could be more full-time than here.
Speaker 2:You know, not not necessarily today, not next year, whatever but we saw a situation where there's a community and something that you know where we could raise kids that maybe a little bit more potentially, could be more appealing than what Los Angeles has to offer in that arena and uh, so it was sort of this two things in parallel that we're looking at being like, oh well, this could be fun and who knows where this goes, and if it becomes bigger and bigger, it's something we could spend more time in. And from a professional standpoint, you know another place to capture patients and I have friends there too. So you know there's an enjoyment part to this as well. I grew up in the Midwest, so I sort of miss seasons, I miss sort of a smaller town community, so it kind of it had a lot of appeal to me and that's kind of that's the nuts and bolts, of sort of how it feels it's interesting.
Speaker 1:I personally love Nashville so I always talk to my wife. You know we love going to Nashville. It's actually very close to here in Virginia where I am. Yeah, we love going to Nashville, it's actually very close to here in Virginia where I am, and great community. I love country. I don't know if you're a country boy, but great music city.
Speaker 1:And so from the outside, one would look at a plastic surgeon thinking, well, wait a second, you're in Beverly Hills, you're in the hub and mecca of plastic surgery. Are you nuts Like, why would you go to Nashville, even considering one day settling down there? But people don't understand. It's so much more about lifestyle and happiness than it is about business. Business, of course, is part of what we do. I don't think any surgeon would trade happiness for um some other type of, um materialistic or financial gain, um, because no money on earth can make you happy if you're miserable where you live. And not saying you're miserable where you live, but uh, just um. You know, responding to some of the people, because I've been been asked many times like why don't I go to Beverly Hills, why don't I go to? And I did my training in Miami. They asked me why didn't I stay in Miami? And it's just like I didn't want to live in those areas.
Speaker 1:Business was a second thing. And but back to doing multiple locations. You know myself, like you have, I've been approached many times by many clinics, also in the Middle East, as well as a lot of patients on social media asking whether I have a location here, there and I could do that. But, like you said, half of our patients they already are traveling out of state and out of country to us. So, personally, when I uh debated that with myself, I'm like, well, if, if people are traveling, it's getting so much easier for them to travel. It's almost become a normalcy for people to travel for surgery. I remember when I started 15, 20 years ago um, hearing about people like about surgical tourism was so bizarre, like we would frown upon it or roll our eyes, and now it's more of a normalcy. So, given the fact that people are willing to travel, how did you see the incentive other than potentially being able to relocate? Specifically talking about Dubai, because that's something.
Speaker 1:I'm still being.
Speaker 2:I'm still being messaged, yeah no, I think it's a good question.
Speaker 1:It's a good question I'm trying to figure out for myself, because I was this close. I even sent my application and everything and then last minute I was like do I really want to do that? I mean, I don't know how often you go there, but I was offered to go there every um, I think it was every three weeks or four weeks, and stay, or yeah, every every four weeks and then practice her for one week and then come back. So I ran the math and I travel a lot and I hate sitting in a plane for longer than, like, my limit is five hours okay, beyond five hours.
Speaker 1:I'm like where's the parachute? I'm out yeah, yeah so so I want to hear your perspective on that how you made it work, because so originally.
Speaker 2:So I was approached um by a group in dubai. It was maybe it was before covid. It was years, years ago and this was at a point in my practice where we're starting to grow and I was getting more traction. And I tell people my Dubai experience has gone in phases and the first phase was I was approached by them. I was single at the time. It was sort of like this exciting opportunity to build my brand, get some more exposure. Maybe there's some ego involved, like yeah, now I have an office in Dubai and Beverly Hills, I'm you know this big deal, whatever. And that was kind of this first phase of it.
Speaker 2:The second phase is it was exhausting and I'm like why am I still doing this? You know, it was kind of like things were growing. I'm like God, do I really want to keep doing this? The third phase is I do love the city and it became more about my seeing my friends who were there. I developed a kind of a community of friends there. I enjoyed going there. It was wasn't really about the money anymore. My practice had grown here where I was probably doing better staying or at least the same. So it wasn't like I had this big financial incentive and it wasn't only the people that I would my friends but also the patient population was a different patient population I kind of enjoyed. I mean, my Middle East patients are some of my favorite patients. I really did enjoy seeing them and having an experience. Now I have a one-year-old daughter Now. I've taken her out there with me one of the times when she was still young enough, where she couldn't move anywhere, so it was easy to get her on a long flight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it gets harder. Let me tell you, I have a four-year-old.
Speaker 2:We just tried her a flight to Florida a few weeks ago. She's about 13 months and that was a. That was no picnic but anyway so so now it's kind of been another crossroads, honestly. You know, I've been doing it for about five, six years. I've enjoyed it. I don't regret it. It did help me in terms of brand building. I think where I'm at now, kind of where you're at now, candidly I don't know that it really makes a whole lot of sense for someone in your position. I mean, when I started I was still trying to get my name out and grow and sort of cash in on that sort of, you know, the growth of my, my name and my practice. I think as a, once you're kind of established, it can be a fun thing. I don't you know if you could do a one-off and be like, hey, you know what, I'll come out there and do you know it could be a heck of an experience or fun that way. I just don't know. I don't know if that's we can hear that.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that, I don't know how much weight that would carry for someone in your position now. Well, I was approached again, like many years ago it was before the pandemic and um my practice. It was during a time my practice was growing exponentially and I didn't see the need. But I remember I discussed it with colleagues. I said, you know what I wish they had like, approached me 10 years ago. 10 years ago I would have, because back then we didn't have social media and growing um cosmetic surgery practice and aesthetic practice. You know our, our mentors and predecessors. They were telling us um, it would take about 10, it takes about 10 years to really establish yourself.
Speaker 1:Now, with social media, if you know, if you're good, if you can show good results and you're able to communicate that effectively meaning you have a good team your practice can grow within a year. You can become famous within a year because you know you have the ability, you have the talent, you have the training. Now it's how do people get to know you or how do they know that you exist? So with social media, I think that the playing field has changed. So a lot of our old, the old guard that was just relying on their titles and on their. You know, being a professor at the university and being the expert in the field, it was much easier for them than someone in private practice to become known, become well-known. I mean, you wrote a book, you published, you were teaching Back then. That's how you got known. Today, it's not that it's just results, it's purely results.
Speaker 2:I think social media has made it harder and easier. In some ways it's made it harder because I think it is. Now we just have a saturated market. You open your phone and you could find 20 providers in a second who hear you. That wasn't the case before. A friend had it or you just knew the guy who was down the street from you. Now you can just grab your phone in your hand and you can find 50 surgeons within 200 miles. So I think the market has been more saturated, so there's more competition.
Speaker 2:But to your point, yeah, I think you can create the. Maybe it's the illusion that you're an expert in your field. You can create this persona, even apart from results, by the way. I mean, I agree, results. You have to have results to grow, but the reality is I see a lot of people growing who do not have a lot of results, maybe don't have great results, but they're very good at marketing the plastic surgery. You know, what people maybe don't want to acknowledge is our world right now is two pieces. It's it's our role as a physician and as a as a surgeon, and it's our role as a physician and as a surgeon and it's our role as a marketer, and some people are okay at one and really good at the other.
Speaker 2:They might be terrible marketers and great surgeons, or they may be amazing marketers and average or below average surgeons, and the reality is the marketers are probably winning that battle. They're getting enough people in.
Speaker 1:I think the ones that, and that's what intrigued me about you and I'm gonna compliment you because you deserve it and that's why I started following you, because I feel, um, I can see, you got both aspects down. Um, not only you're a great surgeon, because obviously your result speaks for themselves and anyone can look at them, but also you're a great surgeon because obviously your result speaks for themselves and anyone can look at them, but also you're a great communicator. I think the best marketers marketing. I separate marketing and branding. I think we're actually talking about branding, not so much marketing, because marketing is the asking for sale thing, but branding is what most people can do, but then, at some point to really become successful, you have to back it up with results, otherwise people will see through you, you know, and one of the things that intrigued me about you and I what's why I love to have you on this podcast, is because you, you got both aspects down and I think, um I don't know who said it I said the primary um skill that you need to have as a doctor to be successful is you have to be a great communicator, and there's different communicators.
Speaker 1:There are some communicators that are, you know, very, um, I don't want to say abrasive, but there's just too much, and there is some that are, you know so, more more timid, more hump, almost too humble that no one takes them serious. And then there's the ones in between and I feel like you really, um, got the the middle down, uh, almost like better than anyone that that I have ever seen, and that's what was intriguing. It's. It's very pleasant when I go on your channel and you, you start talking and teaching, um, you know, sometimes, uh, when you hear someone talk, after three seconds, if you, if they don't engage you, you get bored, you start swiping. But there's something about the communication skill that is engaging, that it's a talent that you must have.
Speaker 1:And you know, I was just hosting a webinar a couple of days ago for new fellows that are interested in fellowship training program, interested in fellowship training program, and they asked me. The panel asked me what qualities I believe, uh, fellows interested in aesthetic and cosmetic surgery need to have, and I said you need to have great communication skills, you need to have a good bedside manners and you need to be a great educator and teacher, because every day we're educating and teaching our patients, and I feel like you got it down and I don't know if something that was innate to you, like natural to you, or something that you learned to tell me. Are you first of all aware of that and if so, how did you acquire that?
Speaker 2:You're more than generous with the compliments. I'd probably rein it back a little bit. I think I look. We're all evolving, you know. If you know, I can look back at my use of social media seven, eight years ago and probably cringe and want to throw my phone out the window.
Speaker 2:So I think there is an evolution of you know how we use social media and how we communicate with patients. You know, I've always told people we have a very, very strange job. You know I do obviously largely body work and it is I think we were talking about this. The other job, you know I do obviously largely body work and it is. I think we were talking about this the other day. I said it's an. It's an extremely unnatural thing for a stranger to come in front of you, take off their clothes and say this is what I don't like about myself. That isn't a completely ridiculous concept at its face.
Speaker 2:So I've always looked at social media, for example, as a tremendous vehicle. We have to at least start the process of getting people more comfortable. And to your point about communication, I think the tenets that I hold dear are be confident but humble. You have the obligation and the responsibility to inform and educate your patients on the field in general and on what you do specifically. And then, lastly, going back to the first point, is it's really important that you make them feel comfortable, and for me, overcomes from connection.
Speaker 2:So so I with each of my patients, and this is kind of you know, it's not a stretch for me, because it's part of the reason I got into this, this line of work, is I do love interacting with people, I love relationships. I that's, you know, my joy comes from those interactions with patients and watching their sort of experience in real time. And so with every person there's something we can just about every human we interact with there's something we can connect over Just about everyone. It's very rare that you'll meet someone you know certainly if they're coming to you in your office, where there isn't something that you can kind of get to in two minutes to talk about, not fakely but like actually genuinely be interested in engaging their lives. And for me that was just sort of a, a simple sort of thing that I enjoyed personally, but I also there's value in it because you know, without that, without that level of comfort, you're already behind the eight ball and the relationship will be strained.
Speaker 1:Well, it's all about authenticity. I think one of the things I see a lot on social media people are trying to fake to be someone else, whether it is they're trying to hide their own insecurities, or someone told them this is how you have to behave and act and it was completely different than who they actually are. So you see them struggling. I think what you're talking about truly is and you're very humble about it is authenticity and, surprisingly, not many are comfortable in their own skin and therefore they can't be authentic. And that's when you're not authentic. You can't connect with someone, because human connection has to do with authenticity, and what you're alluding to perfectly is that you you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:You can start a conversation with anyone, no matter how long you've known them, or whether you disagree or agree, as long as you're authentic yeah, and I I've never, and I agree you, there's definitely certainly a fair bit of inauthentic folks out on social media, and some of them are my friends. I mean some of them. I'll see them in person and be like what the hell is this stuff? I was watching on your media the other day and, for me, the thing I don't understand about it, the thing I cannot get, is that here we have this medium which is giving us an opportunity to show ourselves in a real way, so that when patients come to the office, they already know us a little bit what a what a great gift we have, that we were just handed for free. And instead of using that and harnessing it and, by the way, it doesn't mean you have to be super personal and gregarious and all these things you can be very analytical, you can be very yourself and you know what you're going to attract people who like that, because there are people that like all of these different things. And instead of doing that and attracting what's like you, or attracting those who are, who vibe with your vibe, or whatever you want to call it, you you're doing dances or you're doing something that I know is not who you are. What happens when they walk in the door and they meet you Like I don't understand that part.
Speaker 2:Because if it was me and I was a patient and I had a certain perception of someone and then I go and meet them and they're different, that would throw me off because I would just be like, wait, what else is different, what else is not? Kind of what I thought it was that I saw on social media. So I just never got that. I mean, it's to each their own. People can use it all they want. Some people are successful with that. I just have to be able to look at what I put on and be like, yeah, I'm good with this, this is me, yeah you just have to be comfortable in your skin.
Speaker 1:I try to teach my fellows a lot because I want them to be successful when they graduate. I want them to really go out there and really kick ass. And I'm surprised to see how many are not comfortable just in front of a camera or are not comfortable and I tell them look, just talk about what you know. Don't try to talk about stuff you don't know. Just talk about what you know. Just talk about it like you're talking to a patient, which you do every single day, except there is a camera in front of you and so it takes time, just like me.
Speaker 1:And you were kind of dorky in our first years on social media and I show them some of my old stuff. I'm like, look, this was me Totally embarrassing, so don't look at me now. I mean, I have like seven years practice now in front of the camera and all that stuff. But I feel like there is especially this younger generation.
Speaker 1:They're so afraid of judgment, they value people's opinions so much that they don't even give themselves a chance and I think you have to overcome that or else you're never going to make it. And I feel, because of social media, like you said, there is terrible doctors, but there are great marketers and they've branded themselves. They're just going to win the market. So, no matter how good you are, if you're not able to communicate, if you're not able to overcome that hurdle of being comfortable in front of the camera, I don't know how you're going to make it in this world. I mean, do you see a wave where someone is not on social media or on the internet and they're a phenomenal surgeon just through word of mouth, like in old days, that they're gonna break through the market somehow? Do you know someone?
Speaker 2:I think? No, I think it does happen. It just happens slower. Um, I think it does happen. It's just a function of. It's a time game and you're gonna make the. It's gonna take a lot longer and it's gonna also absolutely require that you do great work. You know game and you're going to make the. It's going to take a lot longer and it's going to also absolutely require that you do great work. You know versus.
Speaker 2:If you're a great marketer, you may be able to get get away with more misses and I you know one of the points you made earlier about you know speak about what you know about. I also think that if you're not passionate about this stuff, you can tell. You can, absolutely, absolutely and, by the way, patients can too. Patients can tell the difference when you have a personal interest in what you're talking about or what you're doing, versus if you're getting up there and reciting a line like. They know the difference and I can tell you that because they'll tell them, they'll point it out to me on certain things that I'm talking about that I clearly have a strong feeling about.
Speaker 2:So if you, if you don't know what you're talking about, that's not good. If you don't care about what you're talking about, it's even worse. So I think you know one thing I, when I'm talking to people, I say listen to your point, be authentic, focus on your work, talk on what you know and find within what you've chosen, hopefully this is a passion of yours. It doesn't have to be the passion of yours, but hopefully it's a passion of yours or, within what you're doing, find what you're passionate about and talk about that, because people identify with that and people want to be with someone who's passionate about what they're interested in having addressed. And yeah, I don't know, I think there are some people where it's tough. I mean, let's, let's be honest, most of most plastic surgeons probably don't have the greatest personalities in the world. Most surgeons in the world don't have doctors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were just as a collective. We're not an impressive personality trait bunch. There's a lot of sort of eccentricities and issues and whatnot, and I think there's a lot of god complexes. There's a lot of people that were. You know, I always joke. I say there's a lot of people. We were dorks coming up, we weren't social animals, we weren't the popular people. We were really good at school or we really excelled there, and then all of a sudden, sudden, one day we're successful, we have money, people are looking at us and some people, I think, don't know how to do that. They're acting out what they think that person is supposed to look like, rather than just no, no, just be who you are. You know, carry on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's easier said than done, but you're absolutely right, absolutely right. We were almost given that badge of authority that some just don't know how to handle properly. To me, there's two groups of people. There's a group of people that, whatever they do, they do it in service of others, meaning what can I do or what is it that I will or can do to improve the other person's life. And that's coming from a point of service and that's, I think, primarily what we should be doing monetize what I'm doing on daily basis, meaning what's in it for me, and not caring as much about the consumer or the patient that is coming to us.
Speaker 1:And you see that in our profession there's two groups of people, and I'm not sure whether patients can easily see through that, because, especially when your work is great and when you come highly recommended, it's almost like they get starstruck and blinded and they might not see it until they realize halfway into it that you know they were just taken for a ride, versus the other group where they genuinely do what's in the best interest of the patient. And that's where I think long-term is probably the more successful strategy, and I think a lot of it has to do with what motivates you, or has motivated you, to become a plastic or cosmetic surgeon. So what motivated you, in particular, having been passionate about cancer, curing cancer and I come from the same, I'm made from the same cloth and what motivated you to become a plastic and cosmetic?
Speaker 2:surgeon. So I, as you know, I started in general surgery. I thought I wanted to be a surgical oncologist. I did oncology research. I found there's a few things that kind of started to change the landscape for me. One is I liked the idea of putting things together more than I liked taking them out. It was I found the process of putting things together far more interesting to me than cutting stuff out. It's sort of started there just on a conceptual level. Um, the other thing is one of the things that attracted me to general surgery was the breadth of work that you would do in theory.
Speaker 2:You know, general surgeons do a lot of different things. General surgery training incorporates vascular and cardiothoracic and trauma and all these different areas. But what I was finding in general surgery is, if you really wanted to excel, you became kind of. You were a liver surgeon, you were a pancreas surgeon and you did the same operation over and over again. I mean, and that was the bias of being at somewhere like Johns Hopkins where you had these super specialists. But and then I looked at plastics and yes, you can focus on an area, like I focus on an area, but I'll do. I do several different operations all the time and each one can be done differently. They're not done the same thing. So the same way you know you do a right hemicolectomy, you do it the same way pretty much every time. You know you don't do a tummy tuck. The same way every time. There's nuances based on where the patient's starting.
Speaker 1:It's more of the creativity aspect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just like the idea of, oh, there's going to be a different way to do this and different avenues. And, candidly, I like that there was a reconstructive avenue and there was an aesthetic. And I think in the back of my mind I saw where hospital systems were going. I saw how our insurance companies were going and I'm like, wouldn't it be great if I was in a, if I was in a discipline within medicine, where I could leave those behind and be a business owner and create my own work culture, the what I wanted out of a practice to be, rather than to be married to whatever the hospital system I was saying, had to be the work culture or the payment as the insurance company, you know, so on and so forth.
Speaker 2:I think that was in the back of my mind and I think when I got into private practice and I was first with a group where we did mostly reconstructive, it solidified it. Once I saw how we were handled by insurance companies, I'm like, why am I? Why am I dealing with this? Um, so, yeah, so it was kind of all these things came together and then the last thing for me truly is the jump from reconstructive surgery to cosmetic was sort of a leap of faith, because I always had this fear. I think there's a huge populace of misunderstanding about cosmetic surgery. Is this vanity exercise? You're going to be dealing with crazy people and it's not fulfilling and all these things versus. I was coming from reconstructive, which did have a fulfilling aspect.
Speaker 1:Well, those are typically people saying that that are not cosmetic or plastic surgeons. Right, but even I, even I as a reconstructive. Why would you listen to them?
Speaker 2:I know. But even I, as a reconstructive plastic surgeon, I didn't know. You know, you don't know until you're in it. In it and I think there was a little bit of that is like, oh, am I going to be dealing with that? And I, as you know, I was so relieved when I found that no, most of my patients are normal folks and they had just as fulfilling an experience and it changed their lives just as much. That was a relief because I don't think for me it wasn't about chasing money like, oh, that career is more lucrative.
Speaker 2:I separated myself from the money years ago. I don't really look at it that way. I know it sounds naive and idealistic, but I legitimately went several years. I tell people sounds naive and idealistic, but I legitimately went several years. I tell people this and it sounds horribly irresponsible.
Speaker 2:I went several years without even knowing what I was making. I didn't. I had to go to my manager to check things. I didn't. I couldn't if someone said, go into your bank account, I had to call them to be like what's my password? I literally stayed away from it and because it was that was that was robbing me of the joy of what I was trying to focus on and do, and that's another thing I tell people is I say listen, I promise you, certainly in our field, if you focus on the work, the money will always follow you, amen, amen. But if you focus on the money, the joy will not follow you. And so I've just seen it happen time and time again where people do it the right way or the wrong way, and it's almost 100%, with 100% accuracy.
Speaker 1:You know I thought you just threw a golden nugget. I thought about that a lot and I give that advice. You know, there's not a podcast where I don't say exactly, almost verbatim, what you just said. And when I talk to my younger self and younger surgeons and or residents and fellows that I mentor, when I say them exactly what you said, the look in their eyes is almost like I don't think they get it and I and, and I think when someone told us the same thing when we were younger, um, I don't know whether we would have understood it the way we understand it now. And I think the way we come to this understanding is a natural evolution. You have to have lived it to understand it, which is okay. That's how we grow as people, but nevertheless it doesn't devalue the fact or diminish the importance of mentioning it to younger people, because I think it's like planting the seed, and then there is going to be an instant in their life where they're at a fork, where they have to make a decision are they going to take the right or left turn? And then that seed that was planted in their head is going to help them to take the right turn. But one of the things you know I really resonate resonates with me when, where I made the transition from reconstructive surgeon, I was doing head and neck cancer. I did two years full time research at Harvard in head and neck cancer and my residency. I picked my residency at the University of Miami Medical School because it had it was the number one head and neck cancer. It had the number one head and neck cancer fellowship in our specialty with the most world-renowned cancer surgeon and so I was destined to become a head and neck cancer surgeon. And that one day where I was in the Wednesday clinic where we did all the follow-ups and post-ops and people from all over the country would come, there was this one patient that after we cured his cancer, we had resected the cancer with it, the whole flap and he ended up having a neck scar right, it wasn't actually bad, it was from the neck dissection and everybody left.
Speaker 1:I was still in the room just answering the last questions. I was the chief resident and he said what can you do about the scar? And I looked at the scar. It didn't look bad, but you could see it and I said you know, um, I could find out, maybe we could laser it, or here in my head I'm trying to go down the algorithm as a resident. I'm like maybe we could do a z plasty.
Speaker 1:All those things go through my head and I'm like, well, let me go ask my attending. So I leave the room, I ask attending and when I ask him that question he was reading something and lifts up his head and he goes like he's not happy that we occurred as cancer, like he's complaining about. I'm like, no, no, he's not complaining, he was just asking whether we can do something to improve it. And it was just, I don't know, just refer him to dermatology or plastics, we don't deal with it here. And so I went back and told him that it was almost the news of me telling that was worse than the news we told him when we told him he had cancer.
Speaker 1:And so what I realized that day, and I always remember that, is that what we do is essentially what everybody wants is about self-esteem and self-confidence. And that day I made the connection that it's not about vanity. Aesthetic surgery is not about vanity, it's about self-worth, it's about self-esteem, it's about self-confidence. And same thing, our cleft lip and palate patients. You know, children, orasty or someone would love to wear a bikini again, or someone wants to look better for their spouse. I mean all of those things. It's all about self-confidence and self-esteem.
Speaker 1:And I think our specialty has done such a disservice, not just to the rising doctors and residents, but even to the community, in labeling it as vanity and almost putting the stigma on what we do, for even other colleagues of ours, the specialties like even the cancer reconstructive surgeons rolling their eyes or devaluing what we do and not realizing we were there, you know, we've been there too, so we might just know something that they haven't understood yet, because they haven't really discussed these concerns with the patients. And so that's, for me, what gets me to work every Monday, to, yeah, we're not saving lives anymore, you know, but we, I mean. I think changing someone's life is just as valuable, if not more valuable, because when you're dead, you don't care anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, your loved ones are going to suffer, but when you live your life with lack of self-esteem and self-confidence to the point you don't go out there and socialize. And we're going to get to talk about longevity a little bit too and, as you know, human connection is one of the biggest predictors of all cause mortality and lifespan, and that's why there's so much, you know. Look at the rates of depression and anxiety that are out there, and I think we have a big part in improving the quality of lives of those people.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you just that last part right there. So quality of life. I think there's a huge misconception of what we do. Plastic surgery is a very easy target, and I get it, of course. If you look at any TV show that depicts a plastic surgeon, I challenge you to find one that depicts it in a sympathetic or positive light. Never, it's always a source thing to mock, and what have you so?
Speaker 1:yeah, you're almost not the real doctor yeah, and so it's.
Speaker 2:It's. It's a thing we deal with all the time. There's a story I share with people, you know, and I I remember you sharing that one too and I I remember you, I think, mentioning it on social media that that really drove this home for me and that there is a functional, there's a life function component to what we do. It is not just about what you see in the mirror, it is about feeling, it is about quality of life. And the story I remember is a woman who and I tell this over and over again because it this is one of the only times I almost not like I'm an I don't want to say I'm an unemotional guy, but this one kind of caught me.
Speaker 2:If gardener was in the clinic and I was like, okay, collect myself, there was this woman. She was, I think she was, I don't know something like eight months post-op or maybe a year post-op when I saw her and she was from hawaii and she was polynesian. So her family always had events in the water. You know her kids, they would do things in the water. And when she was like six months post-op from her mommy makeover, her daughter ran up to her and grabbed her leg and said mommy, you come to all my events now. And the mother in that moment realized how much her just being unhappy in her skin had kept her from living her life and being present for her, for her family, for her kids and she loved her kids. It was just. It was hindering her ability to be present, to be engaging in her life. So I would challenge anyone who says this is a selfish vanity exercise to look at that experience and say what part of that was selfish versus what part of that actually helped her relationship with her children, helped her happiness and fulfillment in her life. And that is the functional component to this that is completely lost in what we do and what I tell people all the time is.
Speaker 2:I hate before and after photos in the office and I love before and after photos that patients send me, because the difference is before and after in the office is just focusing on form. It's just saying this is what this looked like before, this is what this looked like now. When a patient sends me a picture, it's really showing what this is about, which I am confident. Now I feel great. Now. That's a before and after. That's showing the this is what I felt like before. This is what I feel like now. That's a more effective and more a true reflection of what it is that we're trying to accomplish, what we do, and until the day I last practice, I will relay this to patients and tell them no, no, listen, this vanity is what you do for other people, you're doing this for yourself. That's a different animal altogether.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent and you know talking about the flip side. You know there are, you know, patients that are suffering because of other mental issues, like body dysmorphia, and which leads them down this rabbit hole of following certain trends and then ending up in hands of. You know, I call them more of the predatory, not to try to bash anyone, but there's good and bad. There's 7 billion people in this world and there's good people and there's bad people. There's going to be opportunity.
Speaker 1:So there's opportunity world and there's good people and there's bad people. Yeah, there's gonna be opportunity. So there's opportunity. There's a lot of low-hanging fruit and, uh, social media, I feel, augments that opportunity. Um, where do you see, I want to talk to you a little bit about trends, um, so that you can kind of give the audience, um kind a good guide. Also talk about differences and trends between the US, even though within the US it's so different, like I'm pretty sure Nashville is going to be different than Beverly Hills but mainly about the US and Dubai. You know, I want you to talk a little bit about that and kind of help guide the audience in how they can safely navigate through these muddy waters.
Speaker 2:I think the overwhelming trend I'm seeing across all platforms is really two things, and this is not rocket science. You see this a lot. There's a trend towards trying to push non-surgical methodologies to get surgical results, which in most cases is fool's gold. But I think there is this sort of growing industry trying to show people, hey, if you just do this, it's just as good or close enough to surgery and you'll get this great result. The second thing, which is what I'm happy about, is I see a trend more towards a natural aesthetic, and what I mean by natural aesthetic is the kind of result where someone isn't sure, looking at you, that you had surgery. I mean by natural aesthetic is the kind of result where someone doesn't isn't sure, looking at you, that you had surgery, which you know is the ideal. If you know it's not to, it's not to condescend on someone who wants something that maybe doesn't look quite natural to each their own, but in terms of the longevity of a result or result that will endure trends in time, the natural aesthetic is always going to be that, and so we're. I think we're at a point right now where we're seeing more of that, and now, as it as it kind of pertains to different regions of the world. I think one of the things I noticed different between different regions of the world is the I guess the even within this country, people who are okay with you know it being public or people sort of being it's not a big deal versus people being we'll hold that secret to their grave. And so there is a there is which, to me, steps um speaks to stigmas being different in different parts of the country.
Speaker 2:I remember when I, you know, when I was in practice in Chicago for a few years before I moved back out to California, and the difference I would always bring up to people that this is at the time, this is at the time. It could be different now. This is, you know, 15 years ago. But the difference in chicago and la is in chicago you'd have a 50 year old woman coming in saying I'm thinking about getting botox. In la you'd have an 18 year old coming in saying I want botox. So there's this different mentality about what is normal and acceptable.
Speaker 2:Part of sort of plastic surgery's not a big deal versus other places of the world it is is Internationally. When I'm in the Middle East and I'm seeing European patients, by far the natural aesthetic is dominant. It is very, very rare there, way more so here than you see people who show me a result that looks, you know whether it's breast augmentation, where it's like the kind of breast augmentation where it's not going to leave a lot of people guessing. That's very rare over there in my European and Middle Eastern patients here, you know, you still get those people who are like no, this is what I want.
Speaker 1:So would you say the Europeans and Middle Eastern are very similar, since you're seeing both. I mean, I'm from Germany, I grew up there, and I know they're very conservative there, to the point that actually they're almost demonizing anything that you do. They're really calling it vanity. I feel like they're way behind as far as that social evolution than here in the US and they don't have a good relationship, let's just say, with plastic surgery. They secretly want it, but it's almost like they want. They don't want to admit it and I'm very familiar with their psychology, just because you know again, I grew up there and and I could see that and it's very important to them, um, that they look natural because of fear of judgment. They don't, because they judge a lot, they don't want to be judged and therefore they don't want to have any changes made where one could tell um, how do you?
Speaker 1:So you, how are the middle easterners? Uh, in dubai? There I know in dubai you probably see a lot of uh, persians, a lot of um, people from all over the middle East, and hereditary I'm Persian, so I'm also familiar with that psychology. Do you see a difference there? I mean, I can't imagine that it's not different between Europeans.
Speaker 2:Whether or not there's a stigma that exists. The patients that I meet do not seem to mention that or combat that, insofar as they just want a natural result. They're not looking for anything crazy, but I don't get a sense of shame that they're doing it. Um, and I'll see patients and, and also it's a growing market. There are certainly Dubai is Saudi is trying to get involved with this, kuwait. There's more clinics that are popping up, so you have a lot of this becoming becoming. They're trying to create these regional centers.
Speaker 2:Um, one interesting thing about europe and I'm curious if you think this, you know, when I think about europe geographically, I look at eastern europe. When you get to the former sort of soviet blocks russia, very high into plastic surgery, bulgaria, romania, huge, huge. You go into western europe, places like spain, pretty big into plastic surgery. They have a huge, booming medical tourism business in spain. The uk, a good amount of plastic surgery.
Speaker 2:Central Europe is a different animal. When you go sort of Germany, you know, scandinavia, down through Germany into Austria, yeah, that's not a market, it's not a place you think about as much and I don't know. I have no data to back this up, I'm just thinking sort of anecdotally that, yeah, that there is kind of this place in the middle of Europe where it's like it's almost almost like plastic surgery slowly doing this in Europe. Because I do agree they're. They're behind in many ways and, by the way, the US is behind in many ways when it comes to body surgery. South America is sort of ground zero for a lot of what we do, and then we're sort of kind of catching up to them and other places.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think it's it's. It's interesting that you made that observation. You're actually 100% right. Like Austria, Switzerland, Germany. It's interesting that you made that observation. You're actually 100% right. Like Austria, Switzerland, Germany. It's almost like the German-speaking countries. They're one of the countries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it has to do with the culture. Actually, for me, moving to the States 25 years ago, it was a little bit of a culture shock and I'll give you a couple of examples. Maybe that helps explain, to extrapolate that to what you just said, because it's actually true what you said. So Germans are very pragmatic, you know. They're very disciplined and they're very opinionated. They're great people. They're probably some of the most loyal people, like a loyal German friend is a better friend that you can dream of. But because of their pragmatism, because of their it's almost like ultra-conservatism and their discipline, they don't like change. They have problems with change, and I'm not a historian or social psychologist so I don't know where it's rooted. It's just an observation, having grown up there To the point. I'll give an example.
Speaker 1:So in my last year, when I was there, when I came to the US, so my professors were asking me like so what are you doing? And what are you doing next year? And so I said I'm moving to America and I'm going to continue my studies there. And all of a sudden there was a silence like why would you do that? And I thought they're going to be happy, they're going to say, oh, that's amazing. Great, and it was like this. Why would you do that? I'm like, what do you mean Like? Why wouldn't I do that?
Speaker 2:Sounds like a lot of Hopkins attendings. To be honest with you, yeah, and then they're like what's wrong with Germany?
Speaker 1:I'm like nothing is wrong with Germany. I'm very grateful. I lived all my life here. I just want to explore something new and I see more opportunity for what I want to do there. And all of a sudden they turned on me, they turned around and left and I said what just happened? Did I say something wrong?
Speaker 1:So they're opposed to change and they're very judgmental. And I think if you extrapolate that to changing your face or your appearance, they think like it's you're, you're being shallow, and they have this obsession of being deep and not shallow, to the point that they were even saying, well, why you go to america. You know they're just shallow, superficial people. They're just so loud and like have you ever been there? I mean, how many americans do you know? And, by the way, america is a big country. I mean it's people from all kinds all over the entire world living there and it's, you know, like why would you even say? Of course I didn't argue with them, but I was thinking it's like how could you say something about a country with over 300 million people and having such a strong opinion and then trying to influence me and almost pooping on my party, but that has to do with the fact that they don't like change. They see themselves as a superior nation, as a complete nation, and that no one should have a reason to leave, and they see that as an insult. So that's their mentality, and, of course, not all Germans are like that.
Speaker 1:It's mostly that I think Germany has changed because it's become now a melting pot. You know, you go to Germany now you see people from all over the world, and back then, when I lived there, I was the only one standing out with dark hair. I would walk into a bar. Literally the music would turn off and everybody would turn around. It actually happened to me when I got lost and I walked somewhere to ask for address. But now that has changed, even though in certain parts it's like that. So that's just their mentality and they will catch up. Now that more foreigners are living there and assimilating there, I think it's changed. There's a huge Greek community there, a huge Turkish community there, and so that helps them. But again, they're very opposed to change and they just don't have a good relationship with these types of things.
Speaker 1:Even with makeup, however, they're very stylish, so I can't make sense of it, like in Germany when I used to go to, wanted to go to a grocery store or a drugstore, you could not go with sweatpants and hoodie, like my mom would not let me leave the house. She's like you're going like that out of the house. I'm like what's wrong with it. She's like, you know, you're dressed like a homeless person. I'm like these are my sweatpants. You know, it's just, I just came from practice Like it's okay. She's like no, no, no. So they would judge you and they kind of I don't know how it is now, but you know, and you see, men, they're very stylish, to the point that, you know, here in America, european men are kind of judged because of their stylishness, because, oh yeah, dress.
Speaker 2:So it's different, it's just a different culture, you know, um, so it's kind of interesting to see that yeah, I think, uh, you know, it's funny, you're, the older I get, the more I sort of, in part yes, I want to educate people, inform people, give my opinions on what plastic surgery is. But there's a part, another part, of it's like think whatever you want, it's okay. Like I, I'm not, of course you. You think whatever you want. If that's what you think, that's fine. And this stretches, as you and I have discussed, way beyond just medicine and I'll just say listen, you think what you want, it's okay. Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna try to impose my belief system on you. That you know. Yes, maybe it may be secretly. My hope is like I hope you, I hope you see my perspective. If you don't, that's okay, I'm going to do it 100%.
Speaker 1:And that has to do with self-confidence and that has a lot to do with that. If someone judges you Most of the time judgmental people they lack some sort of self-confidence and they're trying to impose that to. You know that gives them confidence. But you know I want to talk about now. So that was a very interesting insight about I did not know that about the Middle East. I never thought of a huge European population, but I'd heard that before, so that's kind of interesting, I believe. So my guess is that people, european people that live in that area, are different just because they're more open to other cultures and more open to other possibilities than the ones that have never left europe or other and admittedly, dubai is a different animal.
Speaker 2:I mean, dubai is different than riyadh, and you're not in iran. I mean it's very different. So I mean dubai is very much has made it a very expatriate friendly city. It's much more progressive than even abu dhabi, which is an hour and a half down the street. You know, and so it it. It makes it. It's less of a, an adjustment for a European or a Russian to come to the middle East. Um, you know what I'm saying. So it's, it is for for that. You know that, another situation. So I think Dubai is a little bit of a. You got to put an asterisk by Middle East when you mentioned Dubai, middle Eastern city, for sure.
Speaker 1:It's like. It's like New York Miami.
Speaker 2:LA in one like literally put on the map in the Middle East. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so are you familiar with the healthcare system over there?
Speaker 2:Um, I I not as much as I should be, but what's interesting, I will tell you. With cosmetic surgery and this is not just true in the Middle East, but it's also like in the UK there's no surgery centers. There you do everything in a hospital and a lot of that has to do with the fact that they don't have opioids like we do to send people home with. So a lot of it's a pain control thing, which is probably a good thing that they don't have that. Um, so so you, even though I'm not as knowledgeable as I should be in the health care system, I'm a part of it, you know, because you have to be sort of within a hospital system. And you, when I'm around, I'm rounding on patients in patients, like it's the weirdest thing you know. I go to the nurses. It's just like when I was a resident. I'm going to the nurses getting the nurse.
Speaker 2:Let's go to the chart, go to the room. I mean it's like I have like ptsd, but oh my god yeah, so it is. The dubai is a growing. They have huge health care corporations. I mean, there's a big one in abu dhabi, big ones in dubai where, um, and I know that the emiratis get free health care. In fact, the emiratis, to my knowledge, they get like a credit card and they can just with like, just swipe whatever you need for healthcare.
Speaker 1:Amazing. We should have that here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's only Emiratis, I know, you know it's not people who get citizenship. They have to be sort of native Emiratis. They just get. They get whatever they want, do you?
Speaker 1:see. Do you see differences in chronic diseases? Slash health in your patient population there of the same age group. Let slash health in your patient population there of the same age group, let's say the middle-aged, than here in the States. Say that again. Do I see a difference? Differences in patients' health and chronic diseases? Like here there's not a patient over 50 that is not either on statins, blood pressure medication or has some sort of immune disease like thyroid dysfunction or some other autoimmune disease. I mean, it's just so prevalent that I'm always surprised if a patient says I don't have any medical problems and they're like 55.
Speaker 1:I'm like usually my question is when was the last time you saw a doctor? Because I'm very suspicious.
Speaker 2:Or they tell me they don't have a medical problem and I say, okay, what medications do you take?
Speaker 1:And they say, oh, I have no medication.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, okay, those are those kinds of medical problems. I think my thing is a little bit biased, because I'm seeing patients who are on the younger side because of what I do, so they're generally a healthier population. What do generally a healthier population? Um, I would be younger, like when you do like. So, like most of my patients, I'd say, are 30s to, let's say, the majority are 30s to early 50s and probably 30s to 40s okay, so so early 50s, that's, that's premenopause.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know yeah, yeah, so I I don't, but I would. My guess, without having anything to back it up, is there's probably a little bit more things here where what I would see more here for sure is the number of people on an anxiolytic and antidepressant, something like that. That is very common. You don't see that as much there. You know they're not. They're not taking those kinds of medications as often so, at a minimum I'd say, mental health medications. I see more here.
Speaker 1:Well, they don't even you said they don't prescribe opioids there. I mean, I think the US population is what? 2% or 3% of the world's population and 80% of opioids in the world are prescribed here in the US. I mean, you know that's? I mean this is not surprising and I don't prescribe any opioids. I don't think they're necessary. You know, I know it's different when you do a tummy tuck. It's probably a more painful procedure, but it's definitely overprescribed here and hopefully our new healthcare will crack down on it, as it has been already made us aware of that.
Speaker 1:There is such a problem where for many decades we were told opioids don't cause, um, you know, dependence and which which brings me to the next topic um of the state of health care, uh, the way medicine is currently practiced and how should I say it? Politically correct? You shouldn't, Okay, so I won't. So healthcare in the US is fucked up. It's fucked up because it's almost a financially derived institution. I mean, you look at hospitals and you look at doctors treating disease as opposed to helping prevent disease or getting to the root cause. You see at how hospitals are incentivized. You see how research is incentivized. You see how our government is involved with pharmaceutical industry. So you look at all of these things and you realize how many of our colleagues, first of all, aren't aware or, if they are aware, they just turn a blind side just because they would be shooting themselves in their own foot, because they're in that system and they have almost no choice because they're in the system. The payroll is dependent on the system. They're not going to raise awareness, so there's a huge conflict of interest. So, in other words, when I say it's fucked up because there's so many levels, we have an issue that unless we crack on things down at the government level, I don't see that changing.
Speaker 1:And now with the new administration, love them or hate them. You know Robert F Kennedy. Now I think he's been nominated as Minister of Health. How do you feel that might impact our healthcare? Is there even a chance? Or is it just? Are the people residing over the power just too powerful? And do you think in any way is it going to affect aesthetic medicine? Or is aesthetic medicine a completely different animal? Are we completely immune? Because it's pretty much direct to consumer, has nothing to do with insurance so I think, fundamentally, the great corrupter of the medical system is money.
Speaker 2:As with a lot of the things that are the things that infiltrate and make, maybe corrupt, a system that is otherwise intended to be incorruptible, healthcare should be corruptible. You know, when you're talking about people's health, that's not something where you should we should be looking at dollars and cents, right. Ideally, there is a good and a bad part to having money being part of medicine. I mean, the uncomfortable reality is money will attract great minds, money will attract innovation and research. Those things are true. That doesn't happen without money. That's the good side of it. Unfortunately, I think that we've gotten to a point where the bad side is greater. And you know, I think, fundamentally, when the large proportion of the money in healthcare is not going to providers, and obviously we're biased. But if I'm a patient and I'm getting life-saving care by a doctor, who do I want to make more money? An insurance executive, a hospital executive of a pharmaceutical company or my doctor? I can't imagine anyone is going to pick someone other than the doctor. But that's what's happening. The doctor gets pennies on the dollar of what those other people get. So do I think this can change? Well, the only way this changes is if you break up the marriage between money and medicine, and that happens at the level of the hospital system, the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies, and that is something that can happen at the government level. There are things that can be done or implemented to influence how much, or that can affect how much influence a pharmaceutical company can have, even if it's like hey, you can't do commercials. Hey, you can't visit doctor's office. Hey, you can't do these things. Hey, your research needs to be funded independently. You know things like. There are things that could be implemented to at least start to create this chasm between the money and the service of delivering healthcare. Now, do I think that's going to happen? The cynic in me says no, probably not. Do I think we can make it better? Yes, but I don't think it's going to be through the government that we make it better. I'm not someone who trusts the government to do the right thing. It's too big, it's too big.
Speaker 2:I think what is happening is, I do think there's more of a grassroots movement towards health and wellness and that people have to take custody over their own health. They can't rely on their doctor or their hospital or whatever to say, hey, this is what you need to do to be healthy, because they're not going to do that. Unfortunately, western medicine is largely reactive medicine. It's not proactive medicine. You know, we treat disease, we don't treat health. So, or we don't foster health.
Speaker 2:I think what's gonna, what I think we're already seeing, is there's this move towards giving people, arming people, hopefully, with good information as best we can to say, hey, do do these things so that you don't have to see your doctor or not to see them as often. You know, food isn't medicine, but food can help prevent you, help limit your need to have medicine. You know things like that, I. So I think it's a multifactorial problem, but I think one of the big things is getting money out of it.
Speaker 2:I think we're seeing a lot of exposure of what big pharma is responsible for, particularly around the time of the COVID vaccine and some things that are coming out in lawsuits now are pretty damning. But I think that's one part of it getting money sort of divorced from healthcare. But I think that's one part of it getting money sort of divorced from health care. But I think what we can do just every one of us is try to educate our patients, educate people to say listen and it's not to say I'm going to pretend to be an expert in things would be like hey, look into this, maybe this would work for you. Consider this, because there are things that people weren't doing before. That's where, I think, maybe the hope lies, more so than the government helping us. Well, I think.
Speaker 1:I think that one argument of um people poo-pooing functional medicine or root cause medicine I call it root cause medicine like it was practiced before the 1920s and I think is, um, because we don't have enough research, yeah, on like the long term value of these things. And and the reason why we don't have research is because it's not being funded, because it can't be monetized. You know, you can only monetize a pill. If there's no pill, there is no research.
Speaker 2:So I think if they find out eating the apple day works every day, then they're not going to. They don't want you to know that. They're not going to want you to eat the apple every day.
Speaker 1:So exactly, and the perfect example is the flu vaccine. You know we actually, you know they have actually done research on a global flu vaccine, a one-time shot that you don't have to get every year. It's a universal flu vaccine, one-time thing, where they're working on the N part of the vaccine as opposed to the H part of the virus that they've been researching for decades on. And, interestingly, that research was shut down even though it showed to be effective, for obvious reasons. I mean, if I was Pfizer, I would go to NIH saying, like what are you doing? Like why would you publish that? Then you know you still want to get paid or not, and if you want to get paid, you better shut down this research or else we're not going to be able to sell a new vaccine every year. I get it. So I think the and then if you look at I just put it on my site the former FDA commissioners that are now on board of directors of Pfizer and Moderna I mean that is a joke, like that.
Speaker 1:Stuff actually is illegal in Germany. You can't do that in europe, and here in the states it's possible. I think and that's how I got our government can, um, prevent, uh, these things from escalating and happening behind the behind closed doors. And then you're absolutely right. I like your comment saying, like we can educate, we can do something about it. I mean each individual, because with the internet the cat's kind of like out of the bag, so if anyone cares enough, they can find information. I mean, today, anyone can be an expert if they spend enough time in educating themselves on these things. That's what we did in school. That's what we did in residency, in our fellowship.
Speaker 2:All we did is we studied a particular field, we spent intense time in studying a particular field and we had a professor that was an expert in that and who guided us and now, a lot of it was dogma or indoctrination but at the end of the day, science is for anyone to grab if they care to I think that the only danger is we can both agree with this is that there's so much information out there that, unfortunately, a lot of it is misinformation. Yeah, so you know, that's the part where, when you put the onus on the person to find it out that you're, that you're also into the wolves a little bit, and I, and I don't know the, I don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 1:What I meant is there's enough information for the public to become aware that there is a possibility and then go find a doctor that is knowledgeable about that topic, Not to self-medicate or treat yourself. You have already pancreatic cancer and then try to eat apple juice every day. That's not what I'm saying. So you know, doctors definitely have their value. I mean it's definitely important. You know me and you were both in there. They do life-saving surgeries, life-saving treatments, but it's about the preventative part and I think where there are more doctors that care enough about it to have educated themselves, and those should be at the forefront and people just have to find them.
Speaker 2:And I also think that you know, I've become more open to for lack of a better way of putting it more holistic medicine in the sense of doctors, I think traditionally we were told to askew and be like, oh, these quacks, whatever.
Speaker 2:And I think now, as time has gone, I'm like well, you know, we don't have all the answers clearly, because we're still we still have a lot of sick people, so I'm getting it all right. So I think I, and so I think there's a growing audience for people that are talking about things that are from a more holistic approach. And yes, it still is. You still have to sort of figure out who's a quack and who's not, but I think at least having the discussion and bringing it up and being like okay, and diving deeper you know, there are things that are just out there for you to take even little morsels here and there, every little bit's going to help. Um, I think that's, that's the the good power of social media I mean that's a good aspect of it is it does raise awareness, if not knowledge, at least raises.
Speaker 1:I mean the whole quack thing started with. I don't know if you know the story about Rockefeller, how he changed medicine from the way it was practiced to uh so quote unquote, like the medical education system basically, wasn't it?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, he, he created it. It was the um, it was um, it was Abraham Flexner. It was basically his attorney who drafted the current way magical education is taught by saying that it should only be evidence-based. And then they funded all these universities that do the research so they can control the narrative, and that's how Medicine 2.0 started.
Speaker 1:Um, and I mean it's amazing how few of our colleagues are aware of that and you immediately labeled as a conspiracy theorist. If you just bring it up because you're threatening um, you believe it's like this. Uh, mark mccary talks about this, about cognitive dissonance. Yeah, um, which is? Which theory was um described by um? What's his name? Leon fessinger.
Speaker 1:Um, in in the 50s, where your brain tries to compute a new piece of information that is completely against what you believed in, and this causes stress. And then the way your brain handles that stress typically is by trying just to deny it. And he says it beautifully. He says first, when someone disagrees with you, they turn around and leave. When you bring them charts and graphs to prove them your view, they question the source. When you appeal to their logic, they don't get the point, and so that describes best what's going on with cognitive dissonance when someone going through the whole medical system and education, making or they were made to believe that this is the right thing, that everything else is snake oil, everything else is bs, everything though you know, making fun of holistic medicine, so you grew up in that community. Now someone comes and says actually you know, good diet, exercise, sleep and mindfulness can prevent depression can prevent cancer.
Speaker 2:There's all these diseases. Yeah, you just look at diet by itself. We had one month, yeah, one month. I remember this. And even then in medical school I'm like this seems kind of crazy.
Speaker 1:We're gonna become doctors and you're gonna give us one month to talk about nutrition like well, because we got nutrition consult as soon as it and it was all about calories in and calories out. And look what they serving in hospitals like you get like applesauce, you get pudding. Like what kind of nutrition is that? Like crazy. Like where the fuck is the protein? Man, I mean post-surgical patients, the one thing you need is protein and you give them applesauce and like jello yeah, like are you kidding me? And that's. And then nutrition I was reading the nutrition consult results.
Speaker 1:It was all about calories, it was not. And then, and then the the dietary values. They were way below what now we know that recommended. Like it was way, especially when it came to protein. So you have to question the system. You have to ask yourself, like, what the hell is going on. You know who is actually creating these protocols?
Speaker 1:And to me, the societies and academies are where the biggest corruption lies. Um, where, because they're getting paid like. Um, my, my latest child was born four years ago, right during covet, and um, the formula, my, my wife had trouble breastfeeding initially because he, he didn't latch and stuff like that. So we had to kind of supplement a little bit with formula until he, he learned it and everything worked fine. And I was reading the back of the formula, there's like soy seed oil and all that stuff in there and I'm like how is that good for a newborn? And then I think it was Similac or one of these things. And then there was a label on it recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics. Well, guess what I found out? They're paying millions of dollars, if not billions, to the American Academy of Pediatrics so they can recommend them.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what I'm saying so who are those people? That's my question, Like why would you either?
Speaker 1:they don't know or they are recommending it for other reasons, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Well, this is the part where I go to, where the money trail is the problem, and the fact is that money does influence all these decisions and all of these policies, and until that money trail is somehow stymied or limited, it's going to continue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and not to speak of the fact that literally the next day, a nurse comes in and is about to give him shots and I asked what kind of shot is this? And it was a hep B vaccine. I'm like he was just born yesterday. Why are you shooting him up? And I'm not an anti-vaxxer, so he's got all the vaccines, but I had a problem with the timing. I'm like he's a one day old newborn. Why does he need a hep b vaccine?
Speaker 1:You know, the only way you can get hep b is if you're sharing needles or, um, sex, sexual encounter. That's the only way you can get hep b. Why is it and and and immediately, uh, the nurses added to turn is like, well, that's our hospital policy. I'm like, show me the policy, because my other sons they were now 17 and 14, they didn't get that happy vaccine the next day. I remember it. No one walked in. So I have a problem with that and in general is just, I guess, group thinking, this shaming, gaslighting that's going on, that starts at the medical societies 100%, and so that has to change. You can't penalize a parent. You have to give people the choice. I hope that this administration, with RFK, they can at least bring it back to normalcy, as opposed to shaming and gaslighting.
Speaker 2:I agree, and even dropping, and even dropping, they drop patients. Yeah, I agree. I do think that there's a especially having a child. Now I think this dichotomous approach where it's like the family choosing versus some institution choosing, is a problem. I think you can't rob rob parents of some sort of input in this process how do you, how do you handle that with your daughter now?
Speaker 1:because I'm sure every other time you go to a pediatrician she they're ready to shoot her up with something. Uh, Because I remember one day they were going to give him, I think, six shots and I asked them if they could just split it like three now and I'll come back in a month the other three and big time attitude, Like I was immediately labeled as an anti-vaxxer, but all I did I said I don't want to not give him the vaccine, I just don't want to give him six vaccines. He's like six months old, Like why would you give him six shots? That's a little bit too much. So I don't know what your experience has been.
Speaker 2:Well, I haven't gotten as far along this process as you have. I mean, candidly, I did. I think they offered the COVID vaccine, which I declined for her. But I think my mentality on is going to be unfortunately, you have to sort of be diplomatic because I can see what the reaction would be in the sense of, you know, I almost have to preface it saying, hey, listen, I I'm not, as you said, I'm not anti-vaccinations.
Speaker 2:I know that you have to make sure you say that, because once you get that label, you're done when you're thinking I'm trying to, you know, start a measles outbreak in my kid's school, but I just just for their wellbeing, I'm wondering if we can just you know, kind of like what you did. I suspect that's going to be my approach. It's it's, you know, certainly a controversial topic and I think we're going to, we're going to I don't know that this RFK thing is going to be interesting, especially in the world of Vax. I think people misunderstand. From my, from my knowledge of him, he's not truly anti-vax. In fact, I think he has had some vaccinations. I think some of his family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he actually has all vaccinations yeah, so I think there's.
Speaker 2:They've created this hysteria that he's anti-vax. I don't think it's that yeah, that's gaslighting.
Speaker 1:All he says is that we don't have long-term research and that law that um president reagan brought in the 80s to immunize the pharmaceuticals against adverse effects of vaccine and not requiring them to do research and show signs and evidence-based signs that they're safe, just the safety issues. He just wants to get rid of that so that they're held to the same standards as other drugs as far as safety. And there is actually a large study I think they did it at Johns Hopkins where they wanted to see if the booster is effective on young adults, because the whole point is reducing cost of healthcare. Meaning if you get COVID and then end up in a hospital, that is going to cost healthcare X amount of money, right. So they noticed in their research they showed that if you don't get the booster, the chance of you getting COVID is one in 44,000, I believe, and that study was done at Johns Hopkins. And then if the adverse effect of myocarditis and pericarditis in young adults is one in 18 000 and that and that one and then death, right. So you're trying to burn down the village to save cost or save one person makes no sense. So we have data that the booster does not make sense for young adults or healthy adults, but yet they're pushing it.
Speaker 1:You go to your doctor's office. They're going to say, okay, you're ready for your booster, you're ready for your flu vaccine and all of that stuff. And that's where I draw the line, because when you ask those doctors about these studies, they don't even know about them. They're just following, like sheep's, whatever recommendation they've been forced on. And I think they should carry more responsibility than that than blindly following. More responsibility than that than blindly following. And, um, I don't know, one of your former professors actually mark mccary. He just wrote the published a book blind spots. I don't know if you've read it, I haven't read it marty's a great.
Speaker 2:He's actually a fellow when I was there. He's a great guy.
Speaker 1:So his book is uh, really is. Um alludes to this issue that we have about the blind spots in medicine and how we blindly just follow dogma and indoctrinations and don't ask questions. And I think every doctor bears more responsibility, even if it's for your old child. Let's say you're a pediatrician, aren't you worried about?
Speaker 2:your own children, or are you?
Speaker 1:treating your children differently. I don't know that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. I mean, we all want to be advocates, certainly for our families, and I do think there's an opportunity now that hasn't existed before in terms of access to information and questions. We're in a whole new age when it comes to that things off um?
Speaker 1:how do you handle the whole pressure, whether it's your own expectations, whether it is um just life in general, traveling, juggling um family and business? How do you handle what's your outlet? How do you ground yourself? How do you um motivate yourself? What is your drive?
Speaker 2:so I think there's there's a lot of different things to unpack there. I think, first of all, handling stress. You talk about so, and there's certainly no shortage of it in our lives. I think one thing I do, one thing that is a fixture of what I do is differentiating the things I can control and the things that I can't. And when you really do that and you practice it consistent, consistently, you realize that the vast, vast majority of the things that cause us stress, anxiety, are things that we do not actually control, and so it's wasted energy. So, whether that's other people's opinions, whether that's whether an outcome is going to be the way we want, whether we're going to meet a certain amount of money, or whether whatever, it is the vast majority of those things we don't control. So it's very freeing for it has been very freeing for me to let go of those things. It doesn't mean they can't affect me. It doesn't mean I can't have an emotional response. But what I do with that emotional response is I let go because I can't control that and I put all of my energy into things I can't control. I can control how, what I do for my patients. I can control how I take care of myself. I can control how I am there for onyx or our daughter. I can control those things, you know. Um, that has been very freeing for me. You know, I started this is kind of a benchmark of stoic philosophy, which is something I started following years ago, and I just found it to be very helpful and applicable to my life. And I tell everyone look, you know, everyone's got to find their own tools or philosophies or whatever to help help them, and that was helpful for me. But people have different things, so so that's the stress part of it.
Speaker 2:As far as the motivation, that's a good question. I think if you rely on motivation, you're in trouble. You have to be disciplined because, as you both, as you and I both know, there's days I'm definitely not motivated. I don't want to do shit, that's just what it is. I want to retire and be done with it. I don't want to work out, I don't want to do anything. So I can't rely on motivation. Motivation is great when it happens and I want to capitalize on it. If I'm motivated, I'm inspired. But it really comes down to dedication and for a dedication, and for me that's about routine. So I am a creature of routine. Absolutely. It kind of is built in discipline for me, and I can sense when I'm off of it and and I can see how that dominoes into other areas of my life. If I'm not eating right or sleeping right or working out, it starts to impact everything. Yeah, um, and so you know, for trying to create a routine and therefore maintain discipline is how I do that.
Speaker 2:I think one thing I've been looking at recently is trying to almost come up with a personal statement, a mission statement, if you will, for myself, and I think it's a fun thing to go over from time to time, because it forces you to create your values or really to define what the things are that you value. It's what's important in life and how you want to live your life, and and that changes, and so from time to time I try to revisit that and say, okay, what values? And I very different from what it was 10 years ago and hopefully 10 years from now it'll be very different. But that's something that I'm actually currently doing just to kind of reset a little bit, um, because there's been so much change in the last few years, um, so they're very generic answers I'm giving you, but they're, they're, they. They apply sort of universally to everything.
Speaker 1:For me, well, I think it's. You're talking about perspective and I, you know, I I truly believe in stoicism. I apply a lot of the stoic beliefs and it's very helpful in how you put things into perspective and try to understand that, like you said, you can't control everything. It's just how you interpret events and what you learn of it and how you grow from that and as opposed to letting that crush you. And I think, um, perspective really significantly changes our mindset in how we interpret things that happen to us and whether it is a terrible event or whether it's a patient that just, let's say, you have a very toxic patient and they just suck your energy out and they just come there and just always complain and there's really nothing wrong with them. But there is more wrong with them. What's going on behind the scenes Very difficult to handle.
Speaker 1:One of the things that actually I have changed in my approach, just so it doesn't suck out my energy. I approach it with a lot of empathy and with a lot of compassion because I know they're hurting somewhere and I try to have conversations with them about that, and sometimes these conversations take a whole hour, but that hour is so well spent, not just for the patient's mental health, but also for my own mental health, because I feel like I did what I was supposed to do, not as a doctor, but as a human being, someone coming with a lot of hurt, with a lot of pain. And I know they're just letting it out on me because, uh, I happen to be involved in their care one or the other way. But the true reason why they're not upset is not me, it's not necessarily the result, it's something else. And suddenly you see that patient has become so grateful for you, opening their eyes to what actually is going on, which makes almost those days to be the most rewarding only if you're able to get the patients here, because sometimes they don't want to hear it or someone, they take it the wrong way and they get actually even more upset.
Speaker 1:So to me, the biggest stress in my job and profession is really that is is knowing that the patient is unhappy because all I my intentions were to help them and now they're still hurting and worse, even they become become very aggressive. And you, you go home on those days, like you said, you just want to quit, you just don't want to do it again, and you remember those words of others saying yeah, that's why you shouldn't go into this profession. Everybody's crazy and it's almost like this devil and the angel every day trying to convince you. So how do you deal with those situations?
Speaker 2:It's a great question and it's a great topic Because, I mean, one of the main things for me is that the discussion has to start long before that one happens. So I do have very honest discussions with patients about expectations and I tell every one of them that there are complications. I'm not God, I don't pretend to be. Anyone that says they don't have complications is either lying or they don't operate enough. It's one of the two things and you don't want to work with either one of those people. So I say they're going to happen. I'm going to do everything I can to minimize them and what I tell people I say the uncomfortable reality of what I do is you're not paying for a from the probability of a result. You could go to Tijuana and you could maybe get a good result 50% of the time with what you pay 50%. Okay, if that's good enough for you, go. Or you could go to the best surgeon in the world and maybe your probability is 98%. It's never 100.
Speaker 1:I like that perspective.
Speaker 2:Isn't buying a TV where you know what you're going to get. You're buying the probability of getting a result. You do everything you can to stack that in your favor, and I do everything as a surgeon to stack it in my favor. I'm picking a patient who I think is the right patient, I'm doing a technique that I'm familiar with, et cetera, but it's never 100. And so I really hammer that home with them. I really say listen, things will go sideways, but I'll say listen, I'm committed to doing everything I can, and in the vast majority of cases, if something goes sideways, there's to help to move the needle back in a direction you're happy with. There is an element of risk you're taking on by doing this, and you have to know that the good news is the vast majority of people are going to get through very happy. I don't want to be that one in a hundred or one in a thousand.
Speaker 1:That's a very good perspective. I like the way you put it, that you're paying for potential outlook, probability of the result, not the actual result.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's what differentiates cost. Yeah, it's not you're. You're paying for probabilities, because experience, etc well.
Speaker 1:Another thing that I've become more aware, um, in recent years is the differences in how patients heal post-operatively. And by healing I don't mean like wound necrosis necessarily, which is the extreme, but I'm talking about prolonged swelling, prolonged inflammation. Especially for me in the face, it could be problematic. Someone wants to go just back to normalcy. They don't want to have like puffiness under the eyes or on their cheek for more than several months and they start asking questions and, of course, first one to blame is is the surgeon, and we didn't do anything different. It's just the biology of that particular organism. Slash patient right, um, and I felt like for and still today that it's out of our hands and and, yeah, you can't control the uncontrollable. That's a biology. And a lot of times I tell my patients like, look, I use the 80-20 rule. I tell them, look, I don't know how it's going to heal because your biology is specific to you. We're going to find out and you can't always extrapolate from previous surgeries. Some of them didn't have previous surgeries, so, and that's usually speculation anyways. So the one thing and I want to hear your perspective if you're integrating that or if you've thought of integrating that in your practice with your patients, which is preoperatively. Like you said, you're assessing them psychologically, assessing their expectations, but what I've started doing now is I start assessing their metabolism, whatever metabolic dysfunctions they may or may not have, their lifestyle, all of which, their diet, sleep, all of which can affect their recovery process. I believe that's one topic that our specialty hasn't tapped into and I'm curious. I'm actually researching it right now myself to see how that can affect not just the final outcome but, more so, the recovery process to it outcome after six months or a year, how is that journey throughout that period?
Speaker 1:If someone has somewhat of a metabolic dysfunction, whether it is they have elevated cortisol levels or elevated HSCRP, which is an indicator for general inflammation, whether they have low vitamin D levels, whether they have high fasting sugar levels or high insulin levels, whether they have a high fasting sugar levels or high insulin levels, whether they get enough sleep, whether they have anxiety, whether they take, you know all of those things I try to integrate that in my preoperative assessment, my preoperative assessment and then, because I'm pretty confident that that will affect their recovery process and journey.
Speaker 1:So what I've started now is to try to optimize, using their biomarkers and giving them, providing a food diary, sharing their health app with me, so that at least two months pre-op so at least I have the chance to make an assessment and then try to optimize preoperatively until the day of surgery, create a certain habit and then, wherever they're deficient, adding supplementation, making dietary recommendation, teaching them mindfulness.
Speaker 1:I invest a lot in that right now and I believe what we do with anti-aging procedures is not any different than longevity through turning back the clock. But also I think we owe them the responsibility of doing that at the cellular level, which we have signs on it. And then, postoperatively, I continue to monitor them. I continue to take, monitor their biomarkers and then optimize and level them accordingly, based on how well they follow those instructions, how disciplined they are and some of them they're relying on help of their spouse, sister, mother, father, whoever it is that is involved in their post-op care and then educating them because they're the integral part. So I have adopted this holistic approach to my patients that starts in the preoperative journey all the way into the late post-operative journey, because I'm very confident that that has a significant impact not just on the final result but also their rollercoaster ride throughout the journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I it's interesting you bring this up so I had had this thing about a year ago where I started to create this template that would be more holistic in the sense of from a nutrition and fitness standpoint at a minimum, and that I had linked up with a few of my nutrition three things actually nutrition, fitness and basically bioidentical hormone therapy essentially peptide bioidentical hormone therapy and so I'd kind of enlisted colleagues of mine who do those things and it kind of made a template for doing it. We only got so far with it and it's still kind of something that we're trying to develop, because right now, as it stands, my recommendations I do give them sort of very specific micro and macro recommendations based on their weight and the procedures that they have. So I try to give them some nutritional guidelines, at least postoperatively. The preoperative things are not nearly as kind of advanced as what you're doing and I think you know you were complimenting me earlier on my social media and one of the things I've been enjoying about yours is sort of because you know I think you and I are both the same in terms of overall health and wellness and how you're integrating that not only in what you're educating.
Speaker 2:You know your, your following, but also how you're integrating that in your practice, cause that's really an ambition of mine as well, and so, basically, you're my guinea pig, so I want you to keep at it and let me know how this is working out for you. I will, because I want to sort of do something similar, and that still is a goal. I had initially wanted to create a brick-and-mortar space that had all these under one roof, but it was really very difficult to do in Beverly Hills. How?
Speaker 1:so.
Speaker 2:I mean from just a dollar-per-square-foot area, creating a space that I could integrate all of these different disciplines.
Speaker 1:Why not in your own practice? That's something I've been contemplating of bringing functional health.
Speaker 2:That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to have them physically in my practice, but that would require a space requirement when I kind of drew up the plan in my mind and having a space for nutrition, having a space for massage the funny thing is for me, the challenge is finding the skilled and properly trained person I know I have.
Speaker 2:It's like finding a needle in a haystack I know I have the opposite problem because we do have we're fortunate here and that we have a lot of amazing people the frontiers of what they do, you know. You know one of the great things about ending up here in Beverly Hills. I will say and it's not to say I mean, obviously there's great doctors elsewhere, it's, it's ludicrous and there's shitty doctors in Beverly Hills. By the way, it's not to say that you need that, but there is this part of you that pushes you to be really good at what you do and you are surrounded by some, you know, frontierushing leaders in field. You really benefit from that and you have access to that.
Speaker 2:And I tell my patients I say, listen, you have a luxury living in this part of the world because I'm one of many great doctors here. I'm not the best. Anyone that says that's full of shit. I'm like, I'm confident in what I do. I think I do go right, but you have a luxury of having a lot of good people that you connect with and you know when, as it relates to these other disciplines and anti-aging and all these things, we have a lot of great people here who who can help patients on that. So I send. So what I do now is I do send patients to. There's an anti-aging doctor who I have them see, who does a full battery and but they have to want to do it. I can't make them do it because it's pricey, because he does. He will assess. He does an initial lab draw where he assesses everything. You know, everything from.
Speaker 1:You know their metabolic function, their other hormone function, inflammatory markers you know that that's what I'm doing now on my by myself, and then you know um, and then, if there is issues that I can't handle, I then try to refer them out for someone either in their area or my area to handle. So right now.
Speaker 2:now I'm outsourcing it. Yeah, if you need some help with that, I have someone who does largely telemedicine because, quite frankly, most of it's telemedicine.
Speaker 1:honestly, yes, true.
Speaker 2:A lot of it is adjusting the numbers. So the guy that I work with has clients or patients all over the place, and so he's done wonders for my patients. And it depends on what your goal is is your goal to build muscles, your goal to lose weight? Yeah, shoot me that information, I will. I will. I'll connect you with him and he take and it's funny because he's very eccentric guy but he takes care of, like, the a-list of a-list well, you need to be eccentric to do.
Speaker 2:Have a practice like that, and I mean that in an endearing way.
Speaker 1:I don't if he sees this, I don't want to.
Speaker 2:He's very good at what he does and I trust him implicitly. I took it in a positive way yeah, but um, but no.
Speaker 1:I think what you're doing is, is should be, what all of us are doing, and you should be commended for being at the front of that and doing that and and showing people that it can be done and being an example of that, because that is where the future lies well, look, honestly, the reason why I'm so passionate and compelled is because the way I became aware of this is through my personal experience, and I was going downhill and I've shared that in many podcasts and outlets where my doctor didn't have an answer and I just wasn't happy with the answer I got, which was none, and it sent me down that rabbit hole through a friend of mine who's an orthopedic surgeon he was actually on my podcast before you and that's when I became aware of it and through lifestyle modifications, simple changes that I made, it got rid of all my symptoms. I became so compelled and I became so convinced that there is more to what we were taught. That um, now, um, that's how I evolved as as a clinician and as a person, and so that's for me. I think with everyone, it starts with a personal story, um, until you become aware of something, and then you know once, know, once. You become. I would call myself.
Speaker 1:I'm pretty obsessed now, to the point that I'm even writing a book and I'm I'm sharing my protocol and I keep changing it every day as I'm learning new stuff, but I re I realized that at least I can share it with our colleagues out there, just to raise awareness, to make them aware of a paradigm shift that I believe should happen in our field.
Speaker 1:If we truly perform anti-aging medicine, that we should tackle it at a cellular level, and I call it the anti-aging paradox. And so that's how it started for me and honestly, I don't know where this road will lead, but I'm really excited. So for me, that's what gets me excited on Mondays. It's almost like it brought this breeze of fresh air into my practice. This opened up this whole new world that changed my life, and I'm so excited to help my patients. And some are more receptive than others, which is okay to each their own, like you said, but it's to the point that you know, once you know about something, you feel like you have to share it. Otherwise you would be kind of like it would be like very similar to lying. That's how I look at it.
Speaker 2:So in that regards, I'm very passionate about it right and I think, look, all we can do is offer a service. True end of the day, all we can do is say listen, I believe in this, I think this works, but I can't take custody of the decision for you. But, um, that's all we can do, and I think having the having that to offer is you've done your part. You've done your part, perfect. Okay, so to your part, perfect.
Speaker 1:Okay. So to close it up, I have a last question for you, yes, which is mostly for aspiring surgeons and entrepreneurs. Is that what advice would you give your 20 year old self, knowing what you've known now, what you've learned till today, to become successful? What would you tell your 20 year old self.
Speaker 2:I don't know this applies to being successful, but this may be just personal for me and I and I tell this all the time- I think success, whichever way you measure it right yeah, I think I in my earlier years I put too much stock in other people's opinions or validations and I think that I think it was imperative.
Speaker 2:And what I would hope to instill in my kids is establishing their own intrinsic sense of self-worth, so that you are immune to others. It doesn't mean you're immune to critique, you can't take it constructively, but that you're not making decisions for the purpose of pleasing other people, but you're following your own truth, you know what it is that you want to do and you can follow your passion with vigor. Because I think the younger version of myself and I think I see this symptom growing in today's culture is this fascination with other people's approval, this fascination with what other people think you should be doing or should be wearing, or should be looking or whatever. And I think when you start to play that game and you lose, as you said, your authenticity or your truth to yourself, you're already behind the eight ball a little bit. So if I could tell anyone coming up now, it would be that being true to yourself. And I think we're lucky if we can find our passion, we're fortunate if we can't.
Speaker 2:I don't think everybody can but find something that at least on some level inspires you. You don't have to ascribe some mythical. This is my passion in life. Don't put that kind of pressure on yourself. Find something that you know this inspires me a little bit. I like this there. Find something that you know this inspires me a little bit. I like this. There's something about this that intrigues me, and then everything else will follow from that, and we talked about that earlier. If you're chasing dollars, I feel sorry for you a little bit. I wish you the best, but I don't think that's where happiness lies. So, being true to yourself and finding something that inspires you Truly, I think those are the things I would tell my younger self and would tell someone coming up now.
Speaker 1:Beautifully said. Thank you so much, everybody. Dr Charlie Galanis, I hope you enjoyed my conversation, which both scientific as well as spiritual, and that's why I honestly wanted to have you on here, because I feel like we share so much of similar values. I've learned so much and I'm really looking forward to hopefully we get to meet each other in person.
Speaker 2:Definitely.
Speaker 1:And keep each other posted about on our developments and because I really feel like we're very like minded and I'm really grateful for you taking the time and if you all loved our conversation. Um, please don't forget to leave me a review on apple, itunes or even on spotify, and you can ask me or dr galanis any questions you want on spotify on the comment section and we'll be glad to answer it. And, charlie, what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?
Speaker 2:I think. Well, we have an office number, of course, which is and they can call or text that, but it's just 310-858-8930. But they can just call or text that number directly. We try to stay on top of our Instagram. The main Instagram is just Charles Galanis MD. We try to stay on top of our Instagram. The main Instagram is just CharlesGolanisMD. We try to stay on top of the DMs there, but people can always try to slide in there and myself or my digital media guy will see them usually.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, and Charles, thank you for coming on and bye until next time.